MASON FUNK:

So if we could start off and have me have you state and spell your names. That's a great place to start.

MICHAEL POURIER:

Wawakanomani is my name. Wawakanomani is W-a-w-a-k-a-n-o-m-a-n-i.

MICHAEL POURIER:

That's how you spell Wawakanomani. What it means is basically everything that I walk on is holy. Everything around me is holy, the earth, the sky, everything, grass, even the little tiniest beetle. The world I live in, I guess, is holy. It's hard to explain into English

MICHAEL POURIER:

because it's such a strong word. I mean, I got that name from my great-great great grandfather in a dream, who passed away. And before that I basically was thinking, God, I didn't get a name yet. You know, there's certain ways you get a name, it's through a dream or you go into ceremony and they give you a name,

MICHAEL POURIER:

and I didn't know. I thought, geez, I was embarrassed because I didn't have one yet and I waited and here it came in a dream. And that's what my spirits call me by. My human name or my earthly name is Michael Pourier, P-O-U-R-I-E-R, Blue Horse.

MICHAEL POURIER:

That's my mother's name, B-L-U-E-H-O-R-S-E .

MASON FUNK:

It's always useful to have it spelled out. You never know.

MICHAEL POURIER:

Okay, that's fine.

MASON FUNK:

And can you tell us, just for the record, the date and place of your --

MICHAEL POURIER:

I was born on October 20th, 1967 and I was born at the Pine Ridge Agency in Pine Ridge, South Dakota.

MASON FUNK:

Okay.

MICHAEL POURIER:

That's what it was at the time. It wasn't Pine Ridge Town yet, it was the agency.

MASON FUNK:

Okay. So the questions I have are gathered from the conversation you and I have, and you also filled out the questionnaire. And one of the things that I wrote down was you said your father taught you how to pray.

MICHAEL POURIER:

Yes.

MASON FUNK:

Can you tell us about that?

MICHAEL POURIER:

I have a lot of brothers and sisters.

MICHAEL POURIER:

I have six brothers and six sisters and I was born kind of in between the sixth sister, we adopted. Well, that doesn't matter. I still have six brothers and six sisters. No, six sisters and five brothers, because I'm the sixth boy. And when I first start talking is he was a Catholic and we

MICHAEL POURIER:

all were Catholic at that time, and he started saying, "This is what you say when you pray." I said, "What do you mean?" Because there was no room for me in the house because there were so many of us, and I had to sleep in the bedroom with my mother and father all the way up until I was 11 because we had no room.

MICHAEL POURIER:

And he taught me, we used to live in this community called -- We are from Porcupine. But my dad called it back home, down home, he called it. We lived on the creek. There's a big creek and that's where we're from. But because he had to work when I came into the picture was in 1967.

MICHAEL POURIER:

I would sleep with him until my mom had picked me up and put me in my bed. And that's what he would say every night before we went to sleep he would say, "This is what I want to teach you," and he'd say the prayer of Our Father. He'd say two words and I'd say it with him and then he'd say the next two, and I'd say it with him.

MICHAEL POURIER:

But I asked him, so I've always knew about spirit, even as a child, because it was like I was pushed into that. Not pushed, but welcomed into that like immediately a spirit, whether it's Catholic, native, whatever, it's all to me spirit. So that's

MICHAEL POURIER:

when I started using it and it helped me throughout my entire life because living in and sleeping in your mother and father's bedroom, you see a lot of violence. I experienced a lot when he'd come back. He's an alcoholic, they both were alcoholics and he'd come back

MICHAEL POURIER:

sometimes really bitter and angry and they'd start fighting. I tried to pretend to be asleep because I didn't want them to know I was listening until my mom would fall on me, because it would be like when she'd get hit. Then she'd grab me and my dad would

MICHAEL POURIER:

stop hitting her, but sometimes he would still continue and I would get hit also through that whole thing. But I prayed for him to stop and he did, he usually did. He didn't know I was praying. He was a good dad,

MICHAEL POURIER:

he was like Jekyll and Hyde. He was really spiritual man. He had a huge family too. They were 11 of them, same amount we'd had. And he was the one that ran away from Catholic school, so he went and got a

MICHAEL POURIER:

10th grade education. But he ran a business which we had a lot of money. Which is odd for us natives, and I felt extremely embarrassed about that. Even as a child, I was embarrassed. We'd get new clothes, we'd get new shoes, everything. I'd go out and I'd muddy them up and dirty them so that they look like everybody else's

MICHAEL POURIER:

or boots. We had horses so I would muddy them, get them all . Then she had to wash 'em so that they wouldn't look so new. But I was embarrassed, even as a child. But it also gave him money to access to alcohol. Then we moved back home to Porcupine and

MICHAEL POURIER:

he stopped drinking because they were older. When I was 10, my dad was 50 years old, he had gray hair. And they look, "Oh is that your grandson?" And he'd say, "No, this is my son." So it was like I'm at the tail end of a huge -- I've never seen my dad with black hair.

MICHAEL POURIER:

I've seen pictures of him. But to me he always had gray hair.

MASON FUNK:

You told me ... Well, first of all, let's talk about your great-great-grandfather on your father's side. What role did he play in your life?

MICHAEL POURIER:

He was a holy man.

MASON FUNK:

Do me a favor, start by saying

MASON FUNK:

my great-great grandfather on my father's side.

MICHAEL POURIER:

My great-great grandfather on my father's side was a holy man, and on my grandmother's side. I don't like to talk about it because it's hard to talk about it because of the fact that my mom is,

MICHAEL POURIER:

they call a full blood and my dad is half. Back then, just the way the colonizers wanted to create, we have a brand, it's our U number just like in Auschwitz, except we don't wear it. So basically we were branded. I have a U number and

MICHAEL POURIER:

I was raised not talking about what he did, what was going on. And my mother's side, I also have same thing. She wouldn't talk about her childhood, she wouldn't talk about my grandpa. But going back,

MICHAEL POURIER:

she also had medicine on her. We call it medicine because the line runs down in the blood. You can't just go out and become one, you are chosen. But on my dad's side, my dad was kind of like the black sheep of our family, they all tried to breed out the native,

MICHAEL POURIER:

but my dad chose not to. That's what I mean by the connection between the white and the native. He chose the native and they all chose lighter skinned people, and my grandpa didn't like that. So he was put down. We had money,

MICHAEL POURIER:

so my dad was always trying to buy his love, my grandpa Colbert, was trying to buy his love. My grandma Olivia was trying to maintain that. But it's real touchy with that, with my relatives because now that everybody's trying to be native or this or that,

MICHAEL POURIER:

I don't belong to that. I don't want any part of that. And he's a very, very famous medicine person. But out of respect, he meant -- I really didn't know who he was until my grandma told me about eight years old. And that was only when we were alone because

MICHAEL POURIER:

I'd run away because I was abused physically, emotionally, spiritually from my brothers, which to this day, and they're all older than me and they're very fierce. They'd be fierce warriors back in the day if they were, and that's how they carry themselves. But for me it's just

MICHAEL POURIER:

really hard to discuss. I didn't even know the extent of it until I got found out who he was by my grandma and I said, "Oh, okay," as an eight year old. And I start seeing books about him and thinking that's not my grandpa or that's not us. I kept thinking, I didn't associate that that lineage was there.

MICHAEL POURIER:

I didn't associate, and his spirits told me that when it's the ceremony, and he was the one that brought me my pipe in a dream, the same one. He was the one that named me, and he was the one when I was a baby puking because I was sick when my mom and dad was passed out who came and rolled me over.

MICHAEL POURIER:

And as a baby, I remember seeing my spirit, seeing him waiting in the living room. Even though I was in my crib, I saw him in the living room sitting there just waiting, and I didn't connect those two for a long time. But it was really upsetting to me because

MICHAEL POURIER:

they were all involved in what they call rodeos and riding bulls. And the abuse that I experienced through being who I am was traumatic for me. I can talk about it now because I've gone through therapy and I've done a lot of therapy. I was never sexually abused by any of them,

MICHAEL POURIER:

but physically and emotionally, I basically hid because every time I came out they would say things that were negative or it was always like when public I could come out, when people would come over. But in private I had to hide, and I didn't understand why they hated me. I didn't understand why I couldn't. And I play with dolls and I did

MICHAEL POURIER:

the female things, but the thing at the core, I didn't understand why they hated me so much because they'd always do shit. Excuse my French .

MASON FUNK:

I think you told me on the phone that either they would say things

MASON FUNK:

when they beat you.

MICHAEL POURIER:

Yeah.

MASON FUNK:

What would they say?

MICHAEL POURIER:

They'd call me a sissy at that time, a girl. "Quit trying to be like a girl," "Quit trying to do this," "Stop trying to play with your sister's toys." I would hide Barbies under the sink. They knew, but I would hide and I'd locked the bathroom door. But

MICHAEL POURIER:

if they found out, they would put me in the middle of the room and beat me up. I tried to run but they catch me and throw me back in the middle. These are grown men, high schoolers, grown men. I was like six or seven, eight

MASON FUNK:

In their minds, did they think they were

MASON FUNK:

going to accomplish something?

MICHAEL POURIER:

They were trying to kill that side of me. They were trying to kill that little -- But in me, I was a little girl. I was a little girl and I didn't know why they were so mad at me. I didn't know why they hated me so much. I didn't know why I was being beat. I didn't know. Even after then, I'd run some -- After they were done

MICHAEL POURIER:

slapping me, hitting my head on the floor -- which they cracked my skull, later I found out -- and my bone, like right here, they fractured that. But I never went to the hospital. When I do these MRIs I do now, they ask "What happened? It looks like you've been in an accident." I said, "Why?" Because there's these calcium lines that are

MICHAEL POURIER:

right here. They're old fractures, and I didn't tell them because what happened was totally upsetting and wrong. But the funny thing was I didn't even know why. I didn't know that I was an okay in their eyes. I knew something was wrong with me. I didn't know what it was.

MICHAEL POURIER:

This was every day. And then when they fractured my skull, I was put in a hospital because I had a concussion. They thought it was meningitis, but it really wasn't that at all. It was the fact that the concussion makes you have headaches and vomiting. They didn't know. I thought it was normal. I thought my family just hated me, my brothers just hated me.

MICHAEL POURIER:

And I didn't see anything wrong with it at that time because that was normal to me. I knew I had to stay out of their way. I knew I had to hide. And even the way, the hardest part is when I turned -- I haven't completed puberty, I haven't. Just a secondary puberty. I went through the

MICHAEL POURIER:

initial part but I haven't completed it, so my voice stayed high. And when I changed and started getting tall, I changed differently. My body wasn't the same. I couldn't gain muscle mass in the upper part of me. But the lower part had mass and whatever. It was really hard.

MICHAEL POURIER:

It's been hard because then I was told that I'm gonna get a disease. They wanted to put me on hormones, but my sister and my mom -- my sister was a nurse, the oldest sister, Patty -- said no, "He'll grow out of it." Because back then they didn't know much about hormones but they wanted to do supplements, and then they said,

MICHAEL POURIER:

"What kind of supplements?" And they said, "Well, we have to do a mixture of both." I didn't understand what they were saying. I didn't know they said. Then they said, "Well, if you don't do this, eventually he's gonna get really sick because he doesn't have the immune system like a normal person." His energy level is gonna be exhausted a lot and he's not gonna be able to complete,

MICHAEL POURIER:

fulfill whatever it is, the puberty process. I didn't know what they were talking about. I didn't know what puberty was at that time. But it was like really realizing, now looking back, it was

MICHAEL POURIER:

why didn't they physically, if I needed it, were they afraid that I was gonna become more effeminate? My dad used to say, "You need to talk like this," and he'd go really low. I started noticing my difference was in, my mom would say make a reservation at a motels and I'd call and I said thank you ma'am.

MICHAEL POURIER:

And that just made me embarrassed and I didn't wanna do it. And when I talked my voice didn't change but I got beat for it. I remember the first time that I was called a fag and I realized I must have been about 12 because everybody's voice was changing around me, but mine wasn't.

MICHAEL POURIER:

And I came out, stuck out even more. I remember running, I think it was like these older guys and I was trying to hang out with my brother who's a year older than me. They were twins, Gary and Mary, a year older than me, and I was hanging out with him and they called me that word, they called me "fag."

MICHAEL POURIER:

And my brother just looked at them and looked at me, and I never understood. Gaywad, that was another one. Faggot; gaywad; HIV bait,

MICHAEL POURIER:

when it first came out. HIV bait. But I looked at them, something in me was like -- But when it happened, I remember running out into the field and crying because everything that I was dreaming about, having a family,

MICHAEL POURIER:

having a husband, having kids was not gonna happen. Back then, I thought I was the only one like me, I thought I was the only one like me, and I prayed to God to

MICHAEL POURIER:

kill me. I pray to God, "Please, just let me die. Just let me die because I don't want to be like this." Not understanding the gift that it was, at that time. 12 years old not understanding the gift that I had

MICHAEL POURIER:

and there was no support. So I prayed harder and I saw visions. They would come to me, and tell me it's gonna be alright. There's a reason for everything.

MASON FUNK:

, you told me your grandmother.

MICHAEL POURIER:

Yeah.

MASON FUNK:

Who told you about two-spirit people?

MICHAEL POURIER:

That's when I would run to her. I'd sneak off. I wasn't allowed to go without my parents. I was never allowed to go up there without my parents.

MASON FUNK:

Tell me where you were talking about. I wasn't allowed to go to my grandmother.

MICHAEL POURIER:

Yeah, we lived down and they were across the highway up on the hill.

MASON FUNK:

Sorry, I don't know who you're talking about when you say "They."

MICHAEL POURIER:

My grandparents, my grandma Olivia and my grandpa Holbert lived up on the hill and we lived across the road down the hill.

MICHAEL POURIER:

But there was a culvert that I would sneak into when I was about eight or nine because I had had it, I wanted to die so I'd run behind there. I don't know where I was running to, I just wanted to run.

MICHAEL POURIER:

I didn't know where I was running to but I had to run and was in the back of our property, my dad and mothers are, and there's this huge tree line area, I ran back there and I ran, I dunno what I was thinking. At that point I knew I wanted to die. I didn't know how to die.

MICHAEL POURIER:

I didn't know how to do it because it was extremely difficult, I was afraid, so I went and ran to my grandma's and I told her what they were saying about me, and my grandpa. She went like this because my grandpa's in the house,

MICHAEL POURIER:

so I was quiet, she went. So I said no to wait. And being eight or nine, I wasn't like a normal eight or nine. So I sat there and I gave my grandpa a hug and he got up, he said, "Well, I gotta go." He had cows and everything, so he left. And then my grandma,

MICHAEL POURIER:

she taught me, she said, your great-great grandpa knew of the two-spirited world. They're holy, , she said. They're higher than any living being on this earth. She said

MICHAEL POURIER:

don't fear it. I said, "But they call me this name." She said, "They're gonna call you names." She said, "Pray. Pray to the creator to help, pray." Which I could do, because I taught, been praying for my whole life because my dad had taught me to do that. But I never told anybody

MICHAEL POURIER:

what they said because the shame was extremely high. It's different with a male than it is with a female because a male, the macho man will just beat the living crap outta you. The female, they'll threaten to, you know -- Some of 'em do attack 'em, but there's a balance there. They'll throw words at them

MICHAEL POURIER:

which repairs them. But like I was, I lost my teeth from that, like go up three years ago picking sage. I didn't know who they were. They were just on the bike. I was picking sage and with a cane of course. And they came up and I didn't even know they were there until I turned around and I got hit in the face.

MICHAEL POURIER:

I didn't know why I fell to the ground. And then the rage came and I grabbed my cane and I hit him on his helmet. I couldn't say who it was because it was in leather, red leather and black and leather, and the other guy was yellow leather, you know, and I hit him and cracked his helmet with my cane. I think it stunned him because

MICHAEL POURIER:

he went like this. And I was ready, you know, because there's a part of me that is a warrior too. There is a part of me that is a protector too, and protecting me, that female side. I was ready because this has been happening to me my whole life. This is nothing, you know, like just the cancer I got

MICHAEL POURIER:

is nothing. Everything that happens to me is nothing because of what I grew up with. The horror and the pain and when I grew up, the torture, all of that. This is nothing to me. And the complications and everything that arises with it is nothing compared to

MICHAEL POURIER:

what I've gone through growing up. You know? I might seem like I'm reading a newspaper under my therapist. They told me that when I talk about the trauma, it's like I'm emotionally detached from it, and I had to. I went through it with them and did what I could. But she told me that

MICHAEL POURIER:

"There's two parts in you, there's a male and female. That warrior part, allow him to come out when he needs to because he's gonna protect that female energy." That time she explained it like a little boy and a little girl. "Let that little boy protect that your sister," she said, "because there's two of you." I never understood what that was. All of a sudden,

MICHAEL POURIER:

like I said, I'm a very gentle, loving, caring person. Like I would never me would never think of taking on these two guys, you know? But something came over me and I protect it and I don't think they expected it.

MICHAEL POURIER:

And that part, that male part is very strong. I think with my prayers of growing up every day, that's God to me. She's God to me, he's God to me. I know both. But the part of me,

MICHAEL POURIER:

all of me is holy. I had to learn how to respect that because it could hurt somebody.

MASON FUNK:

When you say it could hurt somebody, what do you mean?

MICHAEL POURIER:

I was jumped; physically, emotionally, spiritually anyway if I'm hurt by somebody because they don't understand and what I am,

MICHAEL POURIER:

not me as a person, this is how I explain it: I carry something, it's not mine, it's something that I have right now. Someday it's gonna move to somebody else. But for some ungodly reason I have it and I gotta carry it, so I carry that. If they disrespect that energy -- I was attacked also going to blockbuster, it must have been when I

MICHAEL POURIER:

first got sick. I remember these two guys, I had my hair in a bun and I came out and went to the back and my car was right by the end of the building and they grabbed me by my bun by the back of my hair and started dragging me backwards. I was like, okay, here we go. Threw me on the ground. I was already on the ground, but

MICHAEL POURIER:

they threw me on the ground and just kicked me, beat me up so bad. But that warrior side of me kicked in and they start walking away and I jumped up. I didn't jump up, I set up like that. I said, "You guys hit like bitches." After three guys jumped me, you know, that fear just isn't there. I said, "You guys hit like bitches." And that guy turned around and kicked me in the chest right here, which left an imprint

MICHAEL POURIER:

on my chest. The bruise was an imprint. It was like that side comes out, and they died, not by me, but all three of 'em, that year, were killed, spirits that protect me, because there's a lot of 'em. And that's what our culture is,

MICHAEL POURIER:

that's what our traditions are, is that you gain favor with the two-spirit. You don't harm them, you don't ever touch them without their permission, whether it's a tap or holy -- What this is, is holy. It's a ball. This hoop that I have is holy and I have to carry it as such. People around me need to understand that.

MICHAEL POURIER:

When they don't, things happen. I spend a lot of time away from everybody because I understand that no I can't. I gotta say keep everybody safe. And then people come and ask for help and I help them and do this. I don't go out and enroll or I don't go to public events or don't do this because if I do, something will happen that they don't know that is going on.

MICHAEL POURIER:

That's where the younger people now don't even identify and understand what they are. They're just dying because they're committing suicide. I was suicidal for a long time and then when I was 15 I decided I'm gonna do it, at 15.

MICHAEL POURIER:

I got all my things together and I was praying. I built this altar behind the -- It was made outta wood, it was like an altar to God, and I would go down here and pray away from everything going on because it was like always being verbally attacked, emotionally attacked, all of that at home. So I'd walk away and I'd go down

MICHAEL POURIER:

and I'd pray, because this altar I built out of sticks and wood. Then when I was praying, the spirit came to me and showed me what was gonna happen. Said, "No, this will happen." And he literally showed me like reading a book, "You're gonna meet this person. It's gonna get better.

MICHAEL POURIER:

It's gonna get better. Just hold on." Continued on and showed me what happened. They even told me that when I was gonna die, 42, I mean 45, they said, "You have the opportunity. If it's so hard, make it to 45. We'll bring you home." If you can complete all of this, you can come home at 45. So in my mind,

MICHAEL POURIER:

there was that other alternative. There wasn't one way or the other. There was the alternative.

MASON FUNK:

Like an off ramp almost.

MICHAEL POURIER:

Yeah. So I didn't have to do either or I just had to wait until if I chose at this time. I waited and I did what I was supposed to do. I was abused sexually

MICHAEL POURIER:

by a spiritual leader. Not in the way you think. In every other way but the intercourse.

MASON FUNK:

This was one of your spiritual leaders?

MICHAEL POURIER:

My first, yeah. But he held me captive. I was a prisoner but I had to learn

MICHAEL POURIER:

the ways, the tradition, the culture, the ritual part needed to be taught to me. No one else would because they were afraid of me and they wouldn't tell me why. They never told me, why are you scared? I don't understand me.

MICHAEL POURIER:

Even though everybody around me knew, but I didn't know. What's going on, why can't you --? And I'd be turned away, I'd be shunned, I'd be this just kept out of, they call it the the sacred circle. And that was one of the things -- I started doing this in 1998 was when I did the first

MICHAEL POURIER:

two-spirited sacred dance, which hasn't been done in over 200 years. And then I started getting sick at 30, I think it was, I don't know whenever that was, 27.

MASON FUNK:

What stories do you feel like you're being

MASON FUNK:

guided to share? What's important to you to share?

MICHAEL POURIER:

What's important to me is for the sacred hoop to be reconnected for our people. People like two-spirited, to be able to allow to stand in that circle without fear, without shame, with freedom of appraisal,

MICHAEL POURIER:

not being afraid that we'll get hurt and that we're able to live our truth. We're able to practice our way also in any spiritual circle because right now we're not even my own relative, when I

MICHAEL POURIER:

did the sacred two-spirited dance, the Sundance, it was done early in the morning because he was afraid. So it was like he was actually afraid of what would happen because there's a politics to the spirituality of the Native American

MICHAEL POURIER:

community. That's what it is.

MASON FUNK:

You mentioned three names of people, Louis, Gerty and Marilyn. Is it important to you to talk about that?

MICHAEL POURIER:

Gerty was my first teacher. Louis was my first teacher and he was one that made me feel I was okay.

MICHAEL POURIER:

And in '87, he committed suicide after. That changed me. But at the same time it lifted me up to understand the power. I hate that word, "power." The energy

MICHAEL POURIER:

that he, in a sense, was able to do more for me on the other side, for all of us that knew him. And I don't think of terms of suicide as being a bad thing or a good thing,

MICHAEL POURIER:

it just is, and that's what we experience now. Marilyn was somebody that I went to therapy with, who went with me when I was like 22 -- 20, I think. She passed away this last march.

MICHAEL POURIER:

I have a lot of people that are like her, you know. She's another one that --

MASON FUNK:

Who are you talking about?

MICHAEL POURIER:

Kathy, my hookah sister. All the people that are in my life come to me for a reason and are allowed to be with me for a reason. Because they respect the energy

MICHAEL POURIER:

and sometimes me as a person, yeah, we joke around a lot and we get mad at each other a lot, and they understand that because we've known each other before, before this life, before we all come back together

MICHAEL POURIER:

in agreement. I've seen so much, my view is so different than anybody's. I remember 11 years old and, you know, when they think like this or "Did you see what he was thinking"?

MICHAEL POURIER:

And they looked at me, "What do you mean did you see what he was thinking?" Yeah. When you look at people and you know. Nobody could do that. Things like that stop me. These people

MICHAEL POURIER:

that come are put in my way for a reason. I don't have control over who I am. I have like the basic, you know, I remember saying to them -- Because you have to accept this. You have to accept this role that is offered to you. And I remember

MICHAEL POURIER:

being 13 thinking that because, sixth grade, I was made to go and prevent a death. I didn't understand why and I was this whatever, sixth grade, 11 year old, 9 year old, walking off this huge

MICHAEL POURIER:

into like a mile away from everybody else in the dark. But I knew something, it was the death between me or my brother, and I had to prevent it. I knew on my heart that I did not want my brother to die. To me, it was up to them. I guess I didn't care if I died, but my brother, he was a year

MICHAEL POURIER:

older than me, I didn't want him to die, so that's why I did it. But it was like something, I was no longer this nine, eight year old, something turned, and I noticed that because I was freaking out at first. I was saying, "What do you mean?" "What's going on? What do you mean? I can't do this, I can't go out there all by myself."

MICHAEL POURIER:

Then I remember them saying, "Either do this or you let it happen," and then something in me switched. They were my teachers.

MASON FUNK:

Can you talk briefly about, this is very historical, what it meant, the freedom of religion act, when that was passed and what it meant to you?

MICHAEL POURIER:

It was either '73 or '78 where they created us as citizens. I remember because before that they were doing the ceremonies,

MICHAEL POURIER:

but it was underground, you didn't talk about it. That culture came up, and what that meant to me was, I remember my mom looking down at me and saying, "Oh you're a citizen now." I said, "Well, what was I before?" I didn't understand that we were in a concentration camp, as you might say. We had to go to

MICHAEL POURIER:

the superintendent to get rights to drive off the reservation. You drive down the highway and all these government nice houses, nice buildings, everything was on one side and the villages on the other, which was just in horrendous conditions, but still, we survived. And I remember looking at my mom and saying, "How come we don't

MICHAEL POURIER:

live on this side?" And she said, "That's where all the government employees live." All the people that work for the government is on this side. And it's like highway straight down. All the government hospitals on this side, the BIA is on this side. And back then they were white people in those positions. And we were a

MICHAEL POURIER:

sovereign nation, but we were a captive nation. That's how they explained it to me as I got older, because I understood why did we have to do that? I didn't understand why did we have to go into the VA and get, you know, why did we do that? As I got older, and I said, "Mom, how come you said this to me that I was a citizen when I was this age? I didn't understand." Then she explained to me, well this is what happened,

MICHAEL POURIER:

they naturalized you as a United States citizen, but you have a choice. You can be or not. Or you can be. I said, "Why can't I be both?" Well, it doesn't matter anymore because they already just -- Maybe I didn't wanna be a United States citizen, you know? Well, it doesn't matter because they already -- what was the word she used --

MICHAEL POURIER:

naturalized us. I said, "But this is our land. I don't understand. Weren't we here?" And she looked at me and she said, "It's just the way of the world now." And I said, "What were we before?" And she had

MICHAEL POURIER:

kids to deal with other than me. I was very quiet, I was different. The twins were a year before me, so I was often forgotten. But it didn't matter to me because I was often by myself anyway. Even when I was little, the spirits would -- I'd be playing with them and I'd scare my mom.

MICHAEL POURIER:

"Who are you talking to?" "Kathy." And that was who I played with was this little girl named Kathy . "Well, what is this one's name?" "I said her name. Her name? Why?" And I got defensive because they were asking me. Pretty soon all my brothers and sisters were asking me.

MICHAEL POURIER:

But I shut up. I didn't tell 'em what was going on with him because I got made fun of.

MASON FUNK:

Let me ask you another question. These days Muffie and Felipa have helped pass these ordinances.

MICHAEL POURIER:

I was a part of that spiritually.

MASON FUNK:

Okay. Tell me about your role and what the importance of these ordinances are.

MICHAEL POURIER:

My role is to teach and my understanding to be, it was guided.

MASON FUNK:

Just tell me what you're talking about, what's it?

MICHAEL POURIER:

The two-spirited, because they were being murdered. They're still murdered, like a month ago, one of our members was murdered. It was done

MICHAEL POURIER:

to protect and try to go back and teach them who they are. Muffie is focused on the legitimacy of it, the law itself. My role is to protect them and help them achieve that goal. When they go to these places, I'm in prayer, I usually load

MICHAEL POURIER:

my own spiritual object, my pipe in protection of them. They call me and say, "We're going here. This is what we're gonna do." And so I say, okay. And I make a prayer for them. But they were going so much, I just set a basic prayer that as long as I'm living, they're protected no matter what they're going through.

MICHAEL POURIER:

So that's what I basically did. It's very delicate because I could really get hurt. The people they get in contact with, if they were to be touching them, they would be hurt. Anybody, whether it's their son, their daughter, their father,

MICHAEL POURIER:

their mother, people on the street, and I understand all the spiritual aspect of it. She understands, her and Felipa, the legitimacy of it. The legality part, because she was a police officer, so she's aggressive; "This has to be done this way, this has to be done that way."

MICHAEL POURIER:

And we have our conflicts. We're normal, but spirits knows that it was normal and not to rebound anything. It's human relationships, so we connect. Since my health is so screwed up, they're begging me to constantly go with them but I can't. I want to, but it's not my role

MICHAEL POURIER:

because if it was my role, I'd be there with them 100%.

MASON FUNK:

What are you going through right now, your physical health?

MICHAEL POURIER:

Cancer, heart. Exactly what they said, what happened to me if they didn't do the injections,

MICHAEL POURIER:

exactly back then what the doctor said. Brain cancer, thyroid from all the treatments I got. But the one thing I knew, there's a 3% chance of survival rate,

MICHAEL POURIER:

and I remember the doctors telling me that. But the spirit said, "Listen to what they're saying, but don't hear it." So that's what I did. As they were talking to me, the spirit said, "You're in that 3% no matter what they tried to tell you." So I listened to what they said and then I did the surgery on my brain

MICHAEL POURIER:

and they took the mass out. It was about as big as a golf ball, I think. But it had spiderwebs, it's like, to me they explained it like a spiderweb. And they said, "You'll only live for two years," that was in 2011. "You'll only be around for about two years." I just smiled, I knew the truth, I knew what was going on.

MICHAEL POURIER:

There are many levels to that, many levels. The pain, I wouldn't wish that on anybody. If I had enemies, I wouldn't wish them on anybody. My dad put it in a good way because he's Catholic and he converted to our native ways.

MICHAEL POURIER:

He started going and he wanted to Sundance, but he was too old. And he said, "But I dreamed," and he told me his dream and he needed to be out there simply because of that dream. But he was older and my nephew said, "Oh no grandpa, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You don't have to do anything, you're set." So that's what he taught. But

MICHAEL POURIER:

I've been through this since I was 30 and they couldn't understand what was wrong with me. No, 27, after my mom died, because that's when I officially started pursuing it. Before or after I left the spiritual person I went to who's sexually abused and emotionally abused and mental gangs. I got what I needed

MICHAEL POURIER:

was the ritual, so I carried that with me. And when I got sick at 27, they couldn't find out what was wrong with me, and that was the start of what the doctors had said, which I didn't remember until later.

MASON FUNK:

Let me ask you a question. We're about to wrap up. But I want to talk a little bit about water.

MASON FUNK:

It's such a huge topic, but from your perspective, Standing Rock, there's the work that Felipa and Muffie are doing around water. Can you talk about, I don't even know what the question is, water and its importance?

MICHAEL POURIER:

It's holy what's.

MASON FUNK:

What's holy?

MICHAEL POURIER:

The energy of the water is the first medicine,

MICHAEL POURIER:

that's how we see it. All this other medicine comes after it. It's the first medicine that we need every day. It's like you take pills for this way or the white way, they take pills to feel better. I got a bunch of pills that I gotta take to stay alive. But before

MICHAEL POURIER:

all of that, the medicine we needed to live was water, the energy of the water. We do our ceremonies, water is a big part of it because it's part of that first medicine. We drink it after every session, we drink it and they pass it around.

MICHAEL POURIER:

That's part of our way. Without water, none of these medicines can be, none of 'em. The Standing Rock, I want it to go so bad. I want it to be a part of that so bad, but I couldn't. Then they said nobody that is not healthy come , if you can't stand and take care of yourself, don't come. And I thought I better not go.

MASON FUNK:

But were you there? Maybe in a different way.

MICHAEL POURIER:

Yeah, I prayed. Yeah, I was there. Of course, I was there because they're my people too. They're my people too and I'm so grateful that this younger generation is starting to realize, "Hey, there's something about these older ways

MICHAEL POURIER:

that work, and not the other way. It works. We don't know what it is that works, but it works. We feel better." But a lot of them went to boarding, that's a whole nother topic, Catholic boarding school where they beat it out of them. My grandfather was at Fort Carlisle. He was one of the first ones, they.

MICHAEL POURIER:

Blue Horse, my grandpa, Joe Blue Horse. And he was like four years old and his mom said, "Here." Because they had to give the children up, they had to give 'em up, otherwise they didn't get any rations. They manipulate 'em that way.

MICHAEL POURIER:

And my grandpa told me, and he would sing songs with me and cry in the early Morning Star, and he'd speak to me in Lakota and tell me about what happened. He said, "Don't ever get involved with the native way because it's so powerful. It could hurt you." It could hurt everybody around me. He knew who I was already.

MICHAEL POURIER:

And that's what I do is when I am able to pray to the Morning Star, I remember him and I pray. And I'm up a lot of times because I can't sleep because of the pain. Like right now, I have this horrendous pain. That's part of it, that I live with pain. That's when I say, oh yeah, this is nothing compared to what I've already been through. Yeah.

MICHAEL POURIER:

This pain and all this, oh this is nothing because I've been through hell already.

MASON FUNK:

What else? I think we're gonna just wrap up.

CHUCK BANNER:

I have a good one. Short question.

MASON FUNK:

Sure.

CHUCK BANNER:

Talking to him, not to me.

MASON FUNK:

Oh. Pretend that I'm asking the question.

CHUCK BANNER:

Part of what Mason's doing here is really starting an initiative that's now combining two-spirit ...

CHUCK BANNER:

He came out here to get interviews with Muffie, Felipa and I believe we did interviews yesterday, and this morning we're going out to . To the LGBTQ community, what's the same, what's different? What's the message to those that don't know the two-spirit? Some people say, "Oh, it's the same LGBTQ two-spirit." No, it's not the same. What is that?

CHUCK BANNER:

What bridge is that and what's a message to LGBTQ? LGBTQ

MICHAEL POURIER:

A long time ago, culturally the two-spirited were holy, they were the highest form of life. I can't say yes or no or this or that, I can only answer that culturally. What I was taught was that men,

MICHAEL POURIER:

straight men, could date each or with each other. There were men that weren't two-spirited that would go and they'd be together, but they weren't allowed to marry them. They were just -- Everybody was accepted. The men met and they would be together. And the same with -- I had a warrior aunt

MICHAEL POURIER:

who was a lawyer, a warrior. She fought in battles. She was two-spirited. She went with the man to fight in the valleys and she was accepted. As my understanding right now is the two-spirited males, it could be the same as a female also, but the

MICHAEL POURIER:

males were not allowed to marry anyone because they had partners with every single man. They were married to every single man in the community, that's where the spirituality came. You had to come and to offer favors to get a name. We give names to babies and they have to be offered.

MICHAEL POURIER:

There's like a flirtation. I remember working one time, this older guy sitting there at the counter and he came up to me, when he handed me the money, he went like this. He rubbed my hand like that, and he smiled and I looked at him like, what's going on? But he understood what I was and that was his way of getting favor from me. I must have been about 16.

MICHAEL POURIER:

I didn't understand that. I thought, Ooh, what is he doing? But us as males and their dreamers, it could be male or female, are dreamers. I've come back for a reason, and that was to open the gate, and I did that. As long as

MICHAEL POURIER:

I thought that was it, I thought, oh good, I'm done. I came back, survived, did that ceremony publicly, which there was a whole bunch of people, but it was still, and to me they told me it's like we're trying to pour the ocean through the eye of a needle and I am the eye of that needle. We need to open this up for all of you, and since you're the only -- They call it

MICHAEL POURIER:

throwing of the ball too, spiritually, that's part of it. For us, it's different. Everything's different. I caught it and I'm holding it. I didn't drop it and it fell in way, spiritually, that's its significance, so I caught it. It's not mine. I have no control over it,

MICHAEL POURIER:

it has me. This ball I'm holding, I call it a ball of energy, it's not who I am, and it'll pass to someone else one day. But right now I'm holding it. Maybe tomorrow it moves to somebody else. It could be five years from now it moves to somebody else, whether I'm living or dying. But right now it's sitting in my hands, and that's the difference between

MICHAEL POURIER:

two-spirit nation, because they're holy. All of them are connected, women, men. But they don't understand the spiritual significance of it. They're sacred and they need to behave as such.

CHUCK BANNER:

Last question.

MICHAEL POURIER:

Okay.

CHUCK BANNER:

Do you feel it's important for you to share your story?

MICHAEL POURIER:

Yes.

CHUCK BANNER:

Why?

MICHAEL POURIER:

Because I don't want it to die.

CHUCK BANNER:

Start with, "It's important to me."

MICHAEL POURIER:

Oh, sorry. It's important to me to share my story because I don't want it to die. Because if we don't fulfill it, this sacred hoop, our place

MICHAEL POURIER:

which we're allowed and have a right to be in, will never be filled. And then if we don't, the hoop, the sacred hoop will never be healed. That's what we're up against right now. We've got a lot of people that you don't even know about the hoop. They don't even understand about the hoop, therefore, they will

MICHAEL POURIER:

never be whole. It's important to me to continue that and to teach that. I told him, "I said, I'm not gonna be here forever." Muffie and them have part of it, and she will teach when she's ready. The people that I know, there's like four other guys that are two-spirited that I know

MICHAEL POURIER:

have a part of it. One caught it, but it's up to him to hold onto it. It hasn't been passed yet because it's still here with me. But there's more than one energy ball. That's what they mean by, when you opened the door, and I did like in 2005,

MICHAEL POURIER:

was it 2005? 2006 is when I opened at a Sundance. I thought, well, if that's all I'm here for, I did it. I'm done. I did it. The people that I doctored or that came for healing from them is all. I assumed, me as a person, oh good, I'm done.

MICHAEL POURIER:

No. Then they come back and say, we need to build a circle back. It's on my mind every day. It's on my mind all the time. It's on my mind sitting there watching tv. How am I gonna do this? How am I gonna do this for years and years? Then I saw their post. I wanna be a part of it.

MICHAEL POURIER:

Since I knew Muff, she said, "Well, come over." And then so I explained what I was going through and I explained to them what I was doing and they accepted me. That's why it's important to me.

MASON FUNK:

If you could tell your 15 year old self

MASON FUNK:

anything, what would it be? But you only have like two sentences. . I'm just kidding.

MICHAEL POURIER:

Run . I'm kidding.

MASON FUNK:

No word?

MICHAEL POURIER:

Run. No, keep running. Don't look, hide. . Just run.

MICHAEL POURIER:

My 15 year old self? Oh, that poor kid, "It's gonna be okay. You're gonna be okay. You are loved. Somebody loves you. It's gonna be okay."

MASON FUNK:

Do you feel that everything has turned out okay?

MICHAEL POURIER:

Everything has turned out how it's supposed to. I don't regret anything that has happened. Even the abuse of my brothers, physical, mental, emotional. I don't regret anything that I've been through because I know there's a reason for everything. I don't understand it at the time,

MICHAEL POURIER:

but it allowed me to be more compassionate to other people. It allowed me to love unconditionally as best as I understand it to be.